How Lean In Gaslit A Generation Of Women
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We're excited to bring you this very special 4-part series to close out 2024! Chelsea is joined by @celebritymemoirbookclub to discuss Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead by Nell Scovell and Sheryl Sandberg.
Catch up on the first 2 episodes here:
Rich Dad, Poor Dad Is Completely Unhinged:
How Rich Dad, Poor Dad Became The Ultimate MLM:
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As a woman in a VERY male dominated field, Lean In provided some tangible advice that no doubt helped me in my career. Now that I’m higher up the ladder, I’m empowered to work on some of the deeper issues of inequity that Sandberg skated over. Lean In was a right time, right place for me, despite some serious flaws
THIS. I read it without knowing its reputation and got some tangible advice that was kind of helpful. (What surprised me was when some people I knew outright shamed me for having it on my shelf.) I think it falls into a lot of “self help” type books where there are good bits that can be helpful but it shouldn’t be taken toooo seriously because its definitely ignoring some stuff.
Completely agree. Engineer here and tangible advice is sometimes helpful as the first step.
Agreed
This came out while I was in B-school and I’d already had 10 years of professional experience enough to know it was complete bs – the issue is not women needing to do more rather men needing to share power, authority and control – don’t hold your breath on that. Same playing field, extremely different rules.
The truth is you have to ask for everything these days. Ask for more at Chipotle, discounts with car fixes, more help with medical information. It seems like we have to advocate for ourselves everywhere lately.
Which is ironic because tech and “progress” are supposed to make everything easier/more seamless yet it actually has made everything unnecessarily more complicated…
@mikesteelheart yes even to the point of having to pay to get a human to help you in places like FedEx.
I am very much enjoying these conversations! My binge-itis wants to watch the next installment RIGHT NOW lol. But I’ll be patient. Thank you for this, Chelsea
I hate this book a lot but it’s unfair to compare it to Rich Dad Poor Dad. It was useful the way Dale Carnegie was. I do not believe Rich Dad was useful for anybody who wasn’t selling it to a downline
I mean, that’s a fairly sweeping statement. RDPD was helpful to me–someone from a lower-middle-class background who had BARELY thought about wealth accumulation before. True, I didn’t build my whole financial identity around it, but you can’t underestimate how little a person of my background knows about money, to the point where pretty much ANYTHING would be news. To me, it was news that having wealth wasn’t just some magical thing that other people just mysteriously have somehow. It was something you could make strategies about acquiring. And the idea that you could build wealth by doing something other than exchanging your time for cash was brand new information to me. Maybe I was just dumb. That’s fine, but I had to start somewhere.
@tonioinverness okay, and did you put anything from it in practice and accumulated wealth?
@@mmmmmmolly Yes, absolutely. That’s when I went from being a freelancer in my industry to building a business. It never occurred to me before that I could get out of the trap of simply exchanging my labor for cash on an hour-by-hour basis. Again, maybe I was just dumb or naive; I accept that. But I had nowhere else to learn these ideas and that book was the first glimpse I had that another way was possible.
Beyond that, I am currently working on saving up enough money to convert my back house into a small rental unit. That never would have occurred to me without shifting my thinking to the concept of owning assets rather than liabilities.
So it was all at the conceptual level. As the video states, the book itself is way too messy and all over the place to do something as specific as, say, create a business plan from. It’s not going to help you with that. But for people who have never before been exposed to concepts of wealth building, it’s one place to start. And that’s a LOT more people than many people suspect.
Love love loved this episode. As a feminist who was in college when this book came out, I got to hear a lot of critiques of the book. Primarily about how she argues to work within systems that don’t serve women. Now as an adult that is 30, I hate the advice to lean in. I support many women at my job who come to me for advice and I encourage them to advocate for themselves and be unapologetic with their requests. I often try not to give advice, but allow them to just process what they are thinking and encouraging them to move forward with wherever they land. II live in the midwest which adds a whole other layer. A few years ago I was meeting with my therapist (who is a women) and I said to her, “I don’t know why my female coworker always complains, she should just ask for what she wants.” and my therapist called me out and said that women and men navigate work differently. She said often times women are not supported to speak out and up about their ideas and wants. I needed to hear that and I think about it often.
I think that applies to this conversation. “Lean in” in and of itself isn’t bad advice. It is not applicable to most women (which makes it advice given in poor taste).
So excited for part 2 of this conversation.
Also loved the bit about comedy and the double standard for women.
Smart therapist. I have adhd although I didnt know that then. When I spoke up at about your age, more senior colleagues said no we can’t do that, that’s not how it’s done. And then a month later a man would take my idea and be lauded for it. I’m 54 and when I was 30 I wasn’t living in an environment where visiting a therapist could have seemed reasonable. Nobody around me was asking themselves ”do I want this?” ”how much??” and if so, ”at what cost?”. *should i even strive?*
I think young women today have access to lots of insight that was harder to obtain in the 90s.
I hope she just misspoke at 8:30 but when she says “the Equal Rights Act for gender got passed” is a misnomer. It was passed in both houses of Congress but it was NEVER ratified by enough states to become a constitutional amendment, and several states rescinded their initial ratification. There is no gender protection in the U.S. Constitution today, period. In fact it failed after years and years of a campaign attempting to obtain state-by-state ratification.
I can understand her point that the 1970s had a a moment of second wave feminism entering the mainstream, but it’s just not accurate to say that the Equal Rights Amendment was successful.
THANK YOU, EXACTLY
Yes, it was actively ruined by the Mormon church apparently.
A few years ago, I was incredibly frustrated at a job that had zero upward potential. I called my dad crying, and two days later, this book was delivered to my door. Thanks dad. Lol.
Loved this episode. I remember reading “Lean In” with my women’s group at work. The chief memory of those discussions was a female manager holding up the book, filled with post its, saying “everyone of these represent every time I disagree with her.” Lol. I’m thankful for that manager’s candor lo these ten years later.
Side note: TAKE YOUR VACATION. IT’S PART OF YOUR COMPENSATION FFS.
I’ve really enjoyed this series. I want more.
Same!
8:30 The ERA technically passed Congress and then the states failed to ratify so it was never FULLY passed and never ENACTED . . . The point sounded weird premised on the general idea of “[it] passed”
A book that is currently on my ‘to read’ list is Lean Out by Dawn Foster. My understanding is that it counters the message of Sandberg and has more of an in-depth look at the systems, looking at ‘the rise of corporate 1% feminism.’ The reviews are good and this video has made me put it on the top of my list.
oh that sounds interesting. I must google that. I’m 54 and never got very far in my career. I had a burst of enthusiasm and ambition in my late forties when my kids were finally independent (well, not completely) and got frustrated that my efforts didn’t lead to success. But now i’m moving into a phase where time seems so precious, more precious than money.
Celebrity Memoir Book Club omg that’s awesome! Also, Indra Nooyi and Sheryl Sandberg are truly two of a kind lol
These are great topics but I can’t sit through it. The two guests are painful to listen to. It’s rambly
I’m glad I’m not the only one who had this reaction. I find their voices to be so grating as well. I’m sure this is a great discussion but I had to tap out at 14 minutes.
Keep the book discussions coming!!
30:35 I really like this point made by Chelsea. Some of my Korean colleagues say that apart from the inherent sexism, the fact that most millennials didn’t grow up in happy homes, didn’t see their parents ona daily basis, those reasons add up to why people don’t want kids.
when this came out i was an engineering faculty trying to get tenure. the particular school i was at had a lot of problems with any type of visible minority, and even white women fell into that category and that time and place. it was very, very frustrating to read that the answer was work harder and do more. Because I’m glad that worked for her, but it doesn’t work for a lot of people.
Such a good conversation! As a chronically underpaid and undervalued gen x, I love the even handed and level headed review and discussion of this book.
I appreciate the conversation and am a fan of Chelsea and her channel. As a middle aged woman, I will also offer up that hearing women constantly saying “like” makes them sound less impactful to me and is hard to listen to. I get that some will want to hate on me for this observation but it is how a lot of us feel so it may be worth considering when you are trying to communicate in a way others will hear you.
I couldn’t listen to this one because I found their voices incredibly annoying. Which sucks bc I’m interested in their thoughts but it’s like nails on a chalkboard
I feel like they’re staunchly making a statement about how women communicate… but I have never in my life actually met someone who talks like this… I kept trying to figure out what the exact background was. I just take the book with a grain of salt. It all has a feel like they’re speaking over women who are less privileged, the typical “upper middle class white feminist” stereotype. I’m generally progressive but I just can’t relate. The last podcast about get rich quick schemes also had a feel like they’re talking down to people who fall for them, who might have less options or financial know how. It comes across as very out of touch, and it’s not a big deal, but the way they dig in their heels and pride themselves as “questioning themselves” is just the cherry on top. It might not be completely fair, but I almost felt insulted by the lack of clarity in the delivery.